Song: Death penalty takes away God's given chance

Jae Song
Apr 8, 2021
Apr 8, 2021
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Spooner Apr 8, 2021 10:15am

That is a wonderful letter, and good reminder of the difference between Old Testament, Mosaic law - which leads to punishment of sins against God and man - and the fulfillment of that law (and of prophecy) with Christ's crucifixion. Christ preached salvation through God's grace to those who repent (true, heartfelt repentance). The punishments prescribed in Mosaic Law were carried out completely and eternally, for all who accept Him, by Christ on the cross. No more need be done than accept Him. This grace can not be earned through any action we take here on earth, whether on behalf of ourselves or others.

That's why it is frustrating to a believer to hear someone try to justify (or excoriate) Christian support of the death penalty based on something written in Leviticus. Christ already paid that price. We don't have to. We just have to accept Him.

As the letter writer said, we are denying that prisoner the opportunity to turn to Him.

Sandi Saunders Apr 8, 2021 1:13pm

Having studied this issue a bit, I think that hypothesis "No more need be done than accept Him" will be sorely tested and found wanting. "Faith without works" sentiment.

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

"But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

I do not think it serves God's purpose to mislead people about walking the walk.

Spooner Apr 8, 2021 1:44pm

The key in your post is this: "I will show you my faith by my works."

The Christian does good works because of his faith, because the Spirit fills him. He does not hope to gain admission to Heaven because of his works.

That is not to say that the unsaved (or those of different faith) do not do good works and great things. I would never claim that, nor would I impugn their motives.

dudleysharp Apr 10, 2021 9:04am

That is false.

We all die because of our sins. Do you say God does not give us enough tie, becaue of that teaching reality?

No where dos the bible say we can't be saved, because of a certain type of death. Cannot happen.

No matter how and when we die, salvation is always available to us. That is the teaching.

You cannot rewrite that, as seems obvious.

dudleysharp Apr 10, 2021 5:35pm

Spooner agrees that with execution " we are denying that prisoner the opportunity to turn to Him."

That, of course, is not true. The teaching is very specific, we all must turn to God, prior to our death, not matter what the death or when it comes.

There is no biblical teaching which rebuts that.

There are lots of teachings on how executions provide expiation for the wrongdoer.

a few:

Quaker biblical scholar Dr. Gervas A. Carey agrees with Saints Augustine and Aquinas, that executions represent mercy to the wrongdoer:

“. . . a secondary measure of the love of God may be said to appear. For capital punishment provides the murderer with incentive to repentance which the ordinary man does not have, that is a definite date on which he is to meet his God. It is as if God thus providentially granted him a special inducement to repentance out of consideration of the enormity of his crime . . . the law grants to the condemned an opportunity which he did not grant to his victim, the opportunity to prepare to meet his God. Even divine justice here may be said to be tempered with mercy.” (p. 116). “A Bible Study”, within Essays on the Death Penalty, T. Robert Ingram, ed., St. Thomas Press, Houston, 1963, 1992.

St. Thomas Aquinas:

“The fact that the evil, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit the fact that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement. They also have at that critical point of death the opportunity to be converted to God through repentance. And if they are so stubborn that even at the point of death their heart does not draw back from evil, it is possible to make a highly probable judgement that they would never come away from evil to the right use of their powers.” Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III, 146.

Saint Augustine confirms that:

” . . . inflicting capital punishment . . . protects those who are undergoing capital punishment from the harm they may suffer . . . through increased sinning which might continue if their life went on.” (On the Lord’s Sermon, 1.20.63-64.)

St. Thomas Aquinas:

“If a man is a danger to the community, threatening it with disintegration by some wrongdoing of his, then his execution for the healing and preservation of the common good is to be commended. Only the public authority, not private persons, may licitly execute malefactors by public judgement. Men shall be sentenced to death for crimes of irreparable harm or which are particularly perverted.” Summa Theologica, 11; 65-2; 66-6

Name Withheld Apr 8, 2021 12:09pm

"God did not sentence to death the first murderer Cain who killed his own brother. Ironically, God put a mark on his forehead to protect him from execution."

It's hard to understand, however, why such a mark would be needed since, at the time, there were only four people on the planet in total.

dudleysharp Apr 10, 2021 8:21am

NW:

God knows all things at all times and knew that Cain would be living during a huge rise in population and that Cain would continue to sin and bring many others into sin, with him. Many believe that the progeny of Cain, as well as how they harmed the world, was why the flood was necessary.

Name Withheld Apr 10, 2021 4:29pm

That's true, he did live to be over 700 years old after all. I don't remember Cain figuring into the flood story though. Quite some scapegoat he turned out to be. Do people actually believe this kind of loony-bin stuff?

dudleysharp Apr 10, 2021 5:26pm

Faith is a very strong thing, for many people and believing "this kind of loony-bin stuff" is, often, rationalized within scholarship and understanding, no matter the opinions of those without faith, who cannot, possibly, understand it.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/genesis-creation-and-ancient-interpreters-cain-caused-the-flood

Wisdom of Solomon 10:3-4: When an unrighteous man [Cain] departed from her [from following Wisdom] in his anger, he perished because in rage he slew his brother. When the earth was floodedbecause of him, Wisdom again saved it, steering the righteous man [Noah] by a paltry piece of wood. - See more at: http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/genesis-creation-and-ancient-interpreters-cain-caused-the-flood#sthash.HRcspLLd.dpuf

dudleysharp Apr 10, 2021 8:10am

Jae:

You seem, completely, unaware

1) that what God commands us to do and what God/Jesus choose to do are two,totally, different things. We are sinners. He is perfect. You would have us negate God/Jesus' commands. Your humanistic interpretation is, likely, blasphemous.

2) The story of the adulteress was, clearly, about Jesus' enemies trying to entrap him, with Jesus, instead, entrapping them, which is why they withdrew. Under the circumstances, it would have been impossible to punish the adulteress, without breaking either Roman or Jewish law, which is why Jesus did not condemn her (1). You appear clueless.

3) For over 2000 years, there have been consistent teachings, supportive of the death penalty, from the greatest of Popes, Doctors and Fathers of the Church, Saints, theologians and biblical scholars (2) and one Pope, in 2018, saying the sanction is "inadmissable", a claim based within well documented errors of fact (3).

Don't know if this site accepts comments with links, so I will follow up, within the reply.